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OK, this article was bad enough:

All the real life action heros I know would never join the CIA today for obvious reasons. We need 10 years to rebuild the CIA, bad news. But below is the nugget that has fueled my rage for the day:

Berntsen, 48, who also led the CIA Counterterrorism Center's response to the 1998 al Qaeda bombings of U.S. embassies in East Africa, sued the CIA in July, accusing the spy agency of trying to stop him from publishing his book.

Gimigliano said the CIA reviewed Bernsten's book before publication only to ensure that it contained no classified information.

In the book, Berntsen says his Jawbreaker team tracked bin Laden to Afghanistan's Tora Bora region late in 2001 and could have killed or captured the al Qaeda leader there if military officials had agreed to his request for an additional force of about 800 U.S. troops.

But the troops were not sent and bin Laden was able to escape, he said.

His account contradicts public statements by Bush and former Gen. Tommy Franks, who maintained that U.S. officials were never sure bin Laden was at Tora Bora.

For a longtime I have believed the noose was set for Bin Laden in Tora Bora, but for some reason the trigger was never pulled. 800 troops? Hell, I would have joined up just to make that battle.

But did we not catch him because we did not want to make a martyr of him, or is there some other reason Bush would not like Osama Bin Laden on trial.

One has to wonder, 800 troops could have saved us thousands later.

Originally posted to pinche tejano on Tue Jan 03, 2006 at 11:01 AM PST.


So why wasn't Bin Laden captured in Tora Bora?

40%39 votes
16%16 votes
43%42 votes

| 97 votes | Vote | Results

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Comment Preferences

  •  Is "corned bin Laden" (none)
    as tasty as corned beef?

    Nothing is more fatal to maidenly delicacy of speech than the run of a good library. -- Robertson Davies

    by kismet on Tue Jan 03, 2006 at 10:58:47 AM PST

  •  corned bin laden (none)
    is that like corned beef hash?

    {psst, correct the title}

    "You'd like that's all political and morose."

    by Miss Devore on Tue Jan 03, 2006 at 10:58:54 AM PST

  •  Imagine we were winning our battles, (none)
    it's easy if you try.

    Everyday I get angrier that our troops, the best is the god damn world, are being lead by a command center who do understand basic tactics.

    And who think a camel pack is optional in a desert theatre, but that's a rant for another day.

    "It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from its government." -- Thomas Paine

    by pinche tejano on Tue Jan 03, 2006 at 10:59:08 AM PST

  •  Without Osama Bin Laden on the loose it would (4.00)
    have been impossible to foment the war against Iraq - the real objective of the Bushistas from day one.  If Osama bin Laden had been captured or killed, Americans would have congratulated themselves and called it a day.  Game over.

    The Bushistas wanted Iraq.  Nothing less was enough.  So instead they needed Osama on the loose and a bunch of manufactured intelligence linking Saddam to Osama and WMDs to scare the Americans into their war.

    It worked.

    "Americans can always be counted on to do the right thing - after they have exhausted all other possibilities." Winston Churchill

    by LondonYank on Tue Jan 03, 2006 at 11:01:07 AM PST

    •  Yeah, I've heard that agruement (4.00)
      And sadly, it fits perfectly into the Pan Americana document all the neo-cons signed onto.

      It must be nice in their fantasy world, where all these wars are like computer simulations in their minds.

      I wonder what the day count is now since Bush has mentioned Bin Laden. He loves his 9-11 references, but I haven't seen him say Osama in awhile.

      "It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from its government." -- Thomas Paine

      by pinche tejano on Tue Jan 03, 2006 at 11:03:34 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Look on the bright side: (none)
      Osama is safe and sound within the borders of our close ally, Pakistan, so we should be able to pick him up any time we want.

      I'm being facetious, of course.

      Next: horses appointed to the senate!

      by Bob Love on Tue Jan 03, 2006 at 11:09:17 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Well (none)
    I hope this gets some attention. The fact that OBL is still at large makes me seethe. There is no excuse. I believe that OBL was let go either deliberate or by gross incompetence. Fact of the matter is that it has been 4 plus years and it is unlikely now that he will ever be caught. Talk to a police officer-they will tell you that the longer a case goes "cold" the less likely it is that the crime will be solved or a suspect apprehended. grrr

    I'm too disgusted right now to think of a sig.

    by Ga6thDem on Tue Jan 03, 2006 at 11:03:50 AM PST

    •  you are assuming OBL (4.00)
      was behind 9/11, but where's your proof?

      There was no criminal investigation.

      The FBI "found" a highjacker passport in the WTC rubble, they "found" Atta's bag (complete with Koran and will, which is strange since he knew these items would burn up) at Logan (how convenient), and they (and the other intel agencies) ignored the following:

      a) according to Newsweek a week after 9/11, Atta and some of the others had trained at Pensacola Air Naval (and listed it as their address on their green cards)
      b) according to Republican Congressman Weldon and others in the Pentagon, the top-secret Able Danger program had identified Aa and the others BEFORE 9/11
      c) 2 of the hj's rented a room in San Diego from an FBI informant
      d) the DoJ ignored a routine request from FBI agent Rowley in MN to search Mossoui's laptop
      e) the FBI ignored the AZ flight school memo from field agent Williams
      f) insider trading occured on 9/10 on both United and American airlines, but it remains classified who did it
      g) on 9/11 top secret NORAD and NEADS War Games were occuring
      h) Atta and other hj's went to gamble on Aamoff's SUN CRUZ casino ship (then owned by Gus Boulis, who as shot down in FL by mobsters tied to Abramoff)
      i) Marvin Bush ran security on the WTC and was there on 9/11
      j) Pakistani ISI General who reportedly wired Atta $100k in meeting w/Porter Goss on 9/11
      k) PNAC document calls for "new Pearl Harbor" to justify new global war
      l) weapons grade anthrax traced to US military lab was sent to the two senators (Leahy and Daschle) who could have stopped the Patriot Act
      m) Venice, FL flight school where Atta trained had major Afghani heroin bust pre-9/11 and is run by two can men: Dekkers, a Dutch money launderer, and Hilliard, a shady Wisconsin businessman
      n) Jeb Bush signs executive order into FL pre-9/11 allowing him to eclare marshal law if necessary
      o) Cheney's statemnts about sequence of events on 9/11 directly contradict Mineta's commision testimony
      p) two heads of FAA began their job on 9/11
      q) NYC Fire Chief R. Bucca (who died in attack) had Egyptian working for him who repotedly stole WTC blueprints
      r) 52 FAA warnings
      s) intel warnings from Russia, Egypt, Germany, Jordan, interpol
      t) FBI agent O'Neill demoted pre-9/11
      u) collapse of 47-story WTC 7 (not hit by any planes and w/minimal fires and minimal structural damge) collapses completely, cleanly and quickly: a total anomoly in the annals of steel buildings
      ...debris is hauled away immediatley w/mob-run clean-up and GPS devices put on all trucks
      v) Hani Hajour, said to be shit pilot, executes a perfect turn into the Pengon, and crashes into the the least important area (an area uder contruction)
      w) Rumsfeld goes psychic5 minutes before 9/11 by claiming something is "around the corner..."
      x) Cheney, when asked on 9/11 if (what appears to be his)stand-down order still applies, says yes
      y) Andrews air force base is a few miles from Pentagon; plane scrambles are routine between FAA and NORAD
      z) NORAD commander asked if FAA call was "part of the exercise" on 9/11
      a1) FAA tapes made just after 9/11, which interviewd ATC workers about day's events, mysteriously destroyed
      a2) Rumsfeld refers to 9/11 as "blessing in disguise"
      a3) Cheney and Wolfie still insist Atta was in Prague and AQ was linked to SH
      a4) CIA chief Buzy Krongrad calls OBL an "asset"
      a5) Cheney energy task force memos have maps Iraqi oil fields
      a6) BCCI bank scandal that plagued Bush One was a terrorist slush fund (Pakistani) that was never fully solved
      a7) Swiss paper reports (shortly after 9/11) that OBL received dialysis in Dubai a month before 9/11 and was visited there by CIA agent
      a8) Clark's book recounts February 01 meeting about invading Iraq
      a9) Bush tells reporter he saw second plane crash into WTC when at Booker Elementary, despite the fact that it was not shown until next day
      a10) Bush tells TX reporter pre-9/11 he will be a war president
      a11) PNAC letter to Clinton in 1998 demands immediate military strike against Iraq
      a12) Bush and bin Laden family ties
      a13) Bush signs off on secret flights of over 140 Saudis, Moroccans, Egyptians, (as well as Phillipino, British and one American), out of US immediately after 9/11. According to Psner, at least one of the Saudis was later linked to 9/11
      a14) TRIPOD and FEMA emergency crews preparing for drill exercises on 9/11
      a15) WTC 7 has multiple floors w/offices of SS, CIA, FBI
      a16) resistance to 9/11 commission extreme, much overlooked and still classified
      a17) there's a lot mre; this is just off the top of my head

      Keep in mind that most of what we know about al Qaeda comes directly from the very sources who want to keep the boogeyman alive (who want, in Cheney's words, a war "not to end i our lifetimes" as a blank check for the military industral complex). We know for a fact (even Tom Ridge admitted it) that the WH has ratcheted up the fear factor for political gain. The so-called war on terror is largey manufactured.

  •  Recommended (4.00)
    So we couldn't find the 800 soldiers to take out Osama Bin Laden, but we could find the hundreds of thousands of soldiers to attack an unrelated country? Bush should be tried for aiding the terrorists.
  •  It's pretty simple in my mind why... (4.00)
    they didn't catch him.

    They knew he was going to off himself should they get close enough to catch him. Or suspected it.

    Bin Laden dead... 911 has closure.

    How would they have lied America into an illegal war in Iraq if Bin Laden wasn't still running around.

    It's pretty simple.

    I believe this was a conscious decision by Dick Cheney... to let Bin Laden go.


    U.S. blue collar vs. CEO income in 1992 was 1:80; in 1999 it was 1:475.

    by Lode Runner on Tue Jan 03, 2006 at 11:12:42 AM PST

    •  That might be the reason, at least in part. (none)
      Bin Laden dead... 911 has closure.

      Just as much closure, of course, if bin Laden is captured.

      On the other hand, another consideration might have been fear of what bin Laden would reveal if he were captured.

      I suspect both considerations played a role.

      And I agree with you, this looks very much like a deliberate failure to capture the guy.

  •  You guys are damaging my calm (none)
    I never considered that the U.S. government might have deliberately let OBL get away.  Now you are starting to convince me!

    Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on. --Winston Churchill

    by rmwarnick on Tue Jan 03, 2006 at 11:16:31 AM PST

    •  The looking glass (none)
      may be tinfoil free.

      "It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from its government." -- Thomas Paine

      by pinche tejano on Tue Jan 03, 2006 at 11:21:40 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Just starting to convince you??? (4.00)
      As LodeRunner commented upthread, if OBL had been caught and Al Qaeda obliterated, do you think the American public would have stood for the adventure in Iraq?

      OBL has empowered GWB, and vice versa. The GWOT is a war without end, and the key to unlimited presidential power -- without end.

      Now, if you'd like to start to think about something that will really damage your calm, let me suggest a two-part exercise:

      Part One: Go watch the part of Fahrenheit 9/11 where Andy Card whispers to Bush -- supposedly, "we're under attack," and then Bush sits there for seven minutes. Notice ...

      - No double-take. No surprise. Nothing said back to Card -- which means no "who is it? what happened? Is it a nuclear attack? Where?" Bush then sits there for the seven minutes and we watch all kinds of emotions cross his face, but what we don't seem to see is any kind of curiousity. Also notice that Card does not speak to him long enough to say much more than a few words, so it's not enough time to provide any details.

      We've all focused on the deer-in-the=headlights moment, and wondered why he didn't tell the children that he needed to go be president now. And some of us also have wondered why the Secret Service didn't swoop in and truck him out immediately, but instead let him sit in a relatively insecure place that had been announced in advance.

      But the even greater question, to me, is why didn't Bush ask Card any questions, or show any curiousity at all? BTW, Bush later claimed that he had seen the first tower on a TV in the school after it was hit, and thought "that's one bad pilot" (a very strange reaction on its own), but that's BS. There was no TV in the school that was on and showing the strike.

      Part Two: Dig up Bob Woodward's book The Commanders about the first Gulf War. Since it covers Iraq, Bush Sr, Powell, Cheney, et al, it makes for some very interesting reading now.

      But the money quote is in the Prologue. Colin Powell is just taking over as Chairman of the Joint Chiefs. He has told his predecessor, Admiral Crowe, that he is trying to "keep the administration tamped down, attempting to dampen any enthusiasm for war." Crowe is seriously hoping that Powell is making the case explicitly to Bush, rather than copping out by just bringing up "things that need to be discussed," and is meeting with Powell over lunch.

      "I've been thinking," Crowe said, "it takes two things to be a great president and I ought to tell you because you may be President some day."

      "No, no," Powell said insistently, dismissing the reference to his political prospects -- a subject of endless forecasting in the media.

      "Yes, you may and I want to tell you," Crowe said. "First, to be a great president you have to have a war. All the great presidents have had their wars."

      Laughing, Powell acknowledged the truth of that statement.

      "Two, you have to find a war where you are attacked."

      Powell nodded in agreement.

      Crowe could see Powell understood him.

      Now, consider those two parts in the context of each other.

      And by the way, while you're at it, you also might want to add in the fact that the strike to take out Zarqawi prior to the the invasion of Iraq was cancelled because it might have taken out part of their reason to invade.

      And then ask yourself if the GWOT isn't a very convenient way of extending the power of the imperial presidency, which has been a goal of Dick Cheney's for decades? And ask yourself also why, if they really are all concerned with "keeping the homeland safe" as opposed to pursuing other agendas, all that massive amount of Homeland Security money turned out to be pork handouts, and ports are still wide open, and chemical plants are still unguarded? Katrina revealed just what a hollow shell it is -- with three days' explicit warning, they still totally fucked it up.

      I am not a conspiracy theorist, but all I can say is that I seem to be keeping the companies that sell tinfoil in business these days whenever I put these things together.

  •  I wonder how this account jibes with Phil Smucker (none)
    Who covered the Tora Bora battle for the Christian Science Monitor.

  •  Wasn't Kerry accused of lying (none)
    when he brought up Tora Bora in the 2004 campaign?
  •  I have always thought (none)
    that if Bin Laden was caught it would have put an end to the war. No war no money for the bastards that are war profiteering. Maybe I just have a sick liberal mind?
    •  no you are being logical (4.00)
      and furthermore the most logical conclusion about 9/11 (the neocon's endless Christmas present, possibly to themselves), based on all the available evidence, most of which remains overlooked, under-reported, or unconnected by the mainstream media, is that members of the Bush administration may have either looked the other way (allowed 9/11 to happen on purpose), or possibly facilitated the attacks directly.

      This may be hard to swallow for psychological reasons, but it is not hard to see--from numerous circumstantial, contextual, and specific clues--how it remains an UNIVESTIGATED possibility.

      In the end we do not know, but we know enough to DEMAND a full investigation into the possibility that 9/11, like the Iraq war itself, is a ripe lie.    

  •  Neither (4.00)
    The reason why Bush did not try to corner & capture Osama Bin Laden is because the whole set of policies & agenda that this administration seeks is based on nurturing a culture fear & crisis.

    They want Osama Bin Laden alive and well.
    Just imagine what would have happened if the administration did do it's job and capture or kill Bin Laden?.

    The heightened state of fear would have dissipated and receded.  People would've returned back to level-headed thinking and not be so easily susceptible to lies, fraud, and other hyped-up nonsense about Iraq & Nuclear Weapons.

    The Bush family is, in fact, a co-invester with Osama Bin Laden through The Caryle Group.   They are in essence partners in War-Crimes & Terror. These people are profiting by the exporting of terror and directly by the existence of Bin Laden and the fear that his existence produces.

    Simply put, Osama Bin Laden will never be captured until we have a new (non-Bush) administration.

    It ain't gonna happen!

    Lot's of other stuff may happen (War with Iran-??, War with Syria -??, coup d'etat in Venezuela -??) -- but Osama Bin Laden is guarrenteed to be a free man.

    The only way he goes down is if some other foreign nation's Intelligence does all the work of capturing him and the CIA is caught flat-footed & unable to thwart the effort.

    "Bin Laden is doing a heck-of-a-job"
        -George W. Bush - the man who will protect New Orleans from all threats

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